ADDSR Envelope

[eusti]

Not sure if this is a bug or if is a feature request:

In this thread I was exploring how to achieve a visually satisfying envelope for an update to the Korg EX-8000 preset…

I happened on the new ADDSR envelope. I was able to map things correctly when I locked Level 1 to maximum, then Rate 1 is Attack, Rate 2 Decay, Level 2 Break Point, Rate 3 is Slope, Level 3 is Sustain, Level 4 locked to minimum, Rate 4 is Release.

So far so good.

Here are the issues I have encountered:

For the Rate categories it doesn’t matter what the maximum is set to, so in my case as the EX-8000 envelope values go from 0 to 31, I would favor that.
For the Level categories I found that if I only set the max to 31 the Sustain didn’t reach the full height of the display, only when set to 127.
That seems incongruent.

The Rate values are inverse to the EX-8000: 31 is the shortest Attack and 0 the longest.
I would like that either changed or at least have the option to change that.

The labeling when called up and zoomed in on the E1 reads Level 1, Rate 1, Level 2, etc.
I find that not as useful as if I could relabel them with whatever I want.

As workaround this (lowest row) works:

The zoomed in look works well on the E1. The workaround version has issues with the Rates flickering and only the Levels working properly (judging from the animation of the envelope).

As well (like shown in the video of the other thread) the highlighting of the adjustable portion of the envelope when just touching the encoder is off: When I touch the Decay encoder the Sustain portion of the envelope for instance highlights, the Release highlights when touching the Sustain encoder, etc.

I think this pretty much sums up what I experienced with the new ADDSR envelope.
Please let me know if I just don’t properly understand how it is supposed to work.

[eusti]

@martin: Thanks for liking this. Is this something that you are going to look into at some point?
Thanks!

[martin]

Yes, I will. I often use like to signal I read the message and I understand it.

[eusti]

Thank you for clarifying! Just wanted to make sure!

[oldgearguy]

@martin

Yes, I will. I often use like to signal I read the message and I understand it.

Ahh - I was thinking you just loved all the stuff we type here.

[eusti]

It would be great if we could as well hide the controls of the envelope we are not using. In my case it would be Level 1 and 4.

[martin]

@eusti just a confirmation. I am already looking at that. The fix is coming in the upcoming release.

Hiding of unused controls - that is for later. It is not that simple as it might look.

[eusti]

Wonderful, @martin! Thank you!

[martin]

ok, finally found a moment for this one. I read the message and there’s both - things that should be done differently as well as stuff that can be improved…

@eusti

For the Rate categories it doesn’t matter what the maximum is set to, so in my case as the EX-8000 envelope values go from 0 to 31, I would favor that.

I tried and it seems to work as expected. You probably forgot to restrict the both the MIDI min/max and the display min/max?

@eusti

For the Level categories I found that if I only set the max to 31 the Sustain didn’t reach the full height of the display, only when set to 127.

All levels are considered. In your example you locked the L1 to 127. Other levels related to that. The highest level used is sets the maximum from the others. To test that, I set max of all levels to 31 (I guess it is the case of EX8000) and it seems to work fine.

@eusti

The Rate values are inverse to the EX-8000: 31 is the shortest Attack and 0 the longest.
I would like that either changed or at least have the option to change that.

This is on my todo.

@eusti

The labeling when called up and zoomed in on the E1 reads Level 1, Rate 1, Level 2, etc.
I find that not as useful as if I could relabel them with whatever I want.

That totally makes sense. I do not have time for working on it right now - but I will add it to my todo.

@eusti

The zoomed in look works well on the E1. The workaround version has issues with the Rates flickering and only the Levels working properly (judging from the animation of the envelope).

As well (like shown in the video of the other thread) the highlighting of the adjustable portion of the envelope when just touching the encoder is off: When I touch the Decay encoder the Sustain portion of the envelope for instance highlights, the Release highlights when touching the Sustain encoder, etc.

I will review that.

[eusti]

Thank you, Martin.

What you suggested works. Not sure why I had trouble with the max settings before. Now that part works very well.

Looking forward to the other changes to be made eventually. Thank you again!

[martin]

well, I think that the sidebar is too busy. Too many fields. @NewIgnis mentioned that earlier. You most likely just did not see the MIDI min/max settings there.

ps: btw I really like the idea of “locking” certain segments of the envelope by setting the min/max. I’ve never thought about using it that way

[eusti]

Thank you, @martin ! It moves me that you think I’m contributing something worthwhile to the project and your thinking! So appreciated! And am very glad!

[eusti]

@martin, will the next firmware version include a fix / an update for the ADDSR Envelopes?

[martin]

Not everything. My main aim from what was mentioned here is to improve layout of the sidebar when so that it is easier to work with it. The other thing is making it possible to invert min / max, that should resolve the problem of inverted rates. It seems to be quite common.

[eusti]

Thanks for letting me know, @martin. Just to be sure I understand the second part (inverting min / max) will be possible at some later point, just not in the next update? And a “no” in regards to being able to hide controls in the display, correct?

[martin]

I am trying to group number of changes for 3.2 release. The two things I mentioned should be part of that release. Hiding unused controls on the detail page calls for bigger changes. I will not be able to do that in near future. I am now balancing my time between mk1 improvements and work on mk2. The idea is written down and I will keep around when working in that area in the future.

[eusti]

Thank you, Martin!

[eusti]

Hi @martin,

I’m not sure I find the changes regarding the ADDSR envelopes yet… Tried to invert the MIN and MAX values, but that doesn’t seem to work. At the moment a value of 0 still shows as the slowest Attack in the display…

[eusti]

What confuses me as well that after the firmware update the envelopes in this preset are no longer controlling the synth… Not sure what is going on there…
Will need to look closer into that!

[eusti]

@martin Update:

I managed to reestablish the envelope control by going back to the original preset and copy pasting the appropriate JSON code into the matching parts. Seems that they have gotten lost in the mean time. Success at least on that front.

Here are two videos of what I see in when using the preset.

First on the E1:

I see that the Rates are stuttering (as well confirmed in the display of the synth, see video #2) and the Levels are smooth. The highlight indicating which part of the envelope is selected is incorrect. It seems the part after it is highlighted instead.

Here similar observations on the EX-8000:

First parameter 51 (Release) is adjusted and jumps all over the place.
Parameter 55 (Sustain) travels smoothly as expected.

Could you please check this, @martin? Thank you!!!