I am so disappointed in Modal Electronics

I hade some issues so I wrote an email to the support.

Hi

First of all, welcome back to the wonderful world of synthesizers 😀

Back in the 80s (when MIDI was new) I wrote my own sequencer and multi editor/library in assembly language for the Atari ST. But what I’ve seen now is completely new to me. I have a problem with my Cobalt5S. When I turn the leftmost knob clockwize, it sends out CC 36 (LFO1 Rate). But if I continue turning, somewhere in the middle it sends out CC 52 (LFO MIDI Sync) once or maybe two times before continuing with CC 36. When I start to turn the value for CC 36 goes down, after CC 52 the value changes direction and goes up. Is this really normal and does the Cobalt 8 and 8m do the same thing? I’m thinking about buying a Cobalt8 so it’s important for me to know before buying.

I also wonder if there is some sysex documentation for the Cobalt 8?

Some manufacturers today do not want to give away sysex documentation for some strange reason. ASM Hydrasynth is an example of how to ruin an incredibly good synthesizer with snobby support that refuses to share the information that is available. It causes problems for those of us who like to write our own MIDI programs. It also causes problems for my MIDI controller Electra One which needs sysex to be able to sync the parameters you see on the Electra display with the preset that is in the synth. That is just one of many examples. I really hope that Modal Electronics does not join those who think that sysex should be a secret.

I bought a Korg Wavestate and a Korg Modwave a few years ago. Both had their own secret system via USB for sending and receiving presets which meant I couldn’t use my Electra One or any other MIDI controller - I ended up selling both. It will be a while before I buy a synthesiser from Korg again.

What I am trying to say is. When MIDI came out, sysex was developed as a way to be able to write editors and sound libraries for all MIDI equipment and some other things. Third-party software that probably made the synth sell well. Sysex is not perfect but it is at least a standard that has been around for a very long time and works if it is done correctly. If manufacturers start with their own solutions again, we are back to before MIDI when nothing could talk to anything else. That would be a very sad development for us musicians.

Important to say, this email is not a complaint to you. I just want to tell you what problems it can cause. I look forward to following you in the future and looking forward to all the new synths that you probably have planned 😀

The answer from Modal Electronics…

Thanks for getting in touch with Modal Support.

Yes, the behaviour you describe is normal and present across all of our Argon/Cobalt/Carbon synths. Turning the encoder ‘through zero’ will toggle LFO sync mode on or off, depending on which direction you are turning. Continue turning and in the same direction and you’ll see values for the appropriate to the mode that was just activated – anti-clockwise, sync mode on, gives you all the sync options, clockwise, sync mode off, gives you all the rate values. If you watch the display on the synth you will see this happening, though you will need ‘Scrn Switch’ turned on in the ‘Settings – UI and Controls’ menu.

On publishing sysex documentation, in our case it’s a matter of practicality. Producing documentation for external use isn’t a simple matter of putting our internal documenation online. We would need to review, edit, and in some cases limit what we publish. For instance, although sysex is used to swap much simple configuration data between MODALapp and our synths, we wouldn’t want to publish details of the handshaking that happens during the update procedure for the simple reason that messing with this process might leave a synth in a non-bootable state and we don’t want the support burden of helping users recover from it. Modal is a very small business and we do not have the resources to make this a priority.

Of course, we do understand what you’re saying and an active independent support community for any product is a good thing. Further, in future I also think that moving to use NRPNs for anything we might feel able to publish and keep sysex for things that we don’t would be a good strategy. But our product line is an evolution of development, it might be a while before this becomes a reality.

Best Wishes

Modal Support

My thoughts
Why is this so important? Well I don’t understand how to put certain parameters in Electra when Modal messes it up like this. Also, I can’t get sysex documentation, which makes it difficult to use Electra’s wonderful sync function.

Right now I feel like I never want to buy any synth from Modal. Why spend time and energy on Modal when there are so many other synths on the market that have good CC/NRPN MIDI implementation and sysex documentation as standard in the user manual?

Hi ,

I’ve bee away for a while on the forum. So it’s my firest reply in a long time :slight_smile:

I fully agree with you. The fact Modal is creating Sysex in such a way it might render their synth in a non-bootable mode is already a mistake in itself. No sysEx should ever lead to crashing a synth. So they probably already messed up their checksum logic.

As you I’m frustrated with WaveState for the same reason. Also my UDO Super Gemini is slightly underutilized because of lack of sysEx.

Modal’s solution with NRPN’s isn’t okay either, unless there is an option in which the synth can transmit all of its patch settings (in NRPN or in CC, but only one per parameter of course) in one go every time a preset change is made on the synth, or every time a dump of all parameters could be requested.
Some synths work like that (I forget which ones), which is even easier than having to parse sysEx. Maybe you could ask Modal to implement this way of working. Then sysEx is not really needed.

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Thanks for the great answer. I needed someone who knows MIDI and who agrees with me. I completely agree with you. An incorrect sysex message should be ignored, not kill the synthesizer. Possibly with an error code. I’ve sent thousands of incorrect sysex messages to all my synths over the years when building editors and it’s never happened once that a synth crashed. So I think Modal is talking bs! It’s unbelievable that such an expensive product as the UDO Super Gemini lacks sysex. I think Nordlead can send a preset as CC if I’m not completely wrong.

An odd situation indeed. Thanks for telling us. Which leads me to suggest that it might be interesting to create a section or a page somewhere in the forum of all the E1-incompatible synths, or at least the non-MIDI or undisclosed-sysex synths …

not a bad idea. Perhaps two sections : synths for which the sysex is still unknown, ans synth for which the sysex is uncovered, but not openly or fully published by its manufacturer. We could all profit from this gathered info.

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